AP Survey: Barry in, Mac out of Hall

GOCardinals1511 · All-Star Joined: 24 Jan 2005 Location: Troy, IL

that is stupid they both should be first ballot hall of famers and no one can argue that. Bonds the second best player ever in baseball behind ruth and McGwire brought back baseball from the dead. Sosa should be voted in as well.
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Etheridge2 · Hall of Famer Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Location: Chitown

Actually RR I agree with you almost 100%...If you are of the mindset that steroids provide an unfair advantage and that they significantly increase a hitters production. Then it is easy to disqualify Mac and yet still support bonds for the Hall.

No doubt about it back in 1994 before the strike, before these ridiculous HR numbers, before BALCO, before 61 was just another number, before all thsi blow up about steroids you had two players.

Mark McGwire- who burst onto baseball witha thunder and shattered the rookie HR record but slowly declined and suffered injuries and set backs and while noone doubted he was a great power hitter he certainly was more comparable to a Dave Kingman then a Harmon Killebrew.

Barry Bonds- who came up a lanky, speedy outfielder with a good bat and solid glove. By then he won 3 MVP's, several gold gloves, had numerous 30/30 seasons and was on his march towards 500/500.

Bonds is much easier to argue for the hall if you believe steroids to be as big an anhancement to stats as some do. I would vote both in and I would vote Bonds in first ballot, I am on the fence as to if Big Mac should be a first ballot guy. Right now I am very disappointed in him.
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RogueRedbird · Community Assistant Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Location: Illinios

/me falls down and suffers a heart attack

CardinalJayhawk · Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:30 pm Post subject: Straighten me out!

I'm sorry I'm a little confused. There seems to be an argument about before and after and this time period and that or great before this time and after that time. We're talking about CHEATING. This to me is a character flaw that doesn't come and go. If a person is willing to take these huge risks to cheat it brings into question what they may have done before steroids to get that edge. Does a person cheat on their taxes just once or just a little? I may be only a substitute teacher and I didn't graduate at the top of my class, but, my accomplishments come with a clear conscience. I know many people aren't happy with their lives, but getting where you are in life whithout hurting others and doing it honestly means alot to me. I also think we need some evidence that isn't from a source whose only credibility is to publish a book so he can pay his lawer bills before we crucify someone, anyone, even Barry.
I hope Mac didn't do it, That summer meant alot to my kids(and me).
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RogueRedbird · Community Assistant Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Location: Illinios

We are being hypothetical at this point, cause thats all ya can do hehe. Just more hot stove type yammering till the season gets going

Cardinalsarethebest · Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:38 am Post subject:

A yes for Mac, but with plenty of trepidation
By Jayson Stark, ESPN.com

Would I cast a Hall of Fame vote for Mark McGwire?

I would.

And not just because I once used to tell people that chronicling McGwire's home-run rampage in 1998 was the best story I ever covered.

No, I would vote for Mark McGwire because this is a much more complicated question than people want to make it.

I can't say I feel good about the thought of casting that vote. I wish I knew more than I know right now. And I have a feeling I will know more about this whole situation the day the ballot arrives than I know today.

But if I had to vote right now, I'd cast a troubled, conflicted vote for McGwire on the first ballot, just because I don't know how to untangle a number of issues that are twisted inside his story.

Full Story
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trojancard · Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:52 pm Post subject:

Its tougher for a person to vote for McGwire in. McGwire only has power numbers to really justify his a spot in the HOF. Up front, I've told you guys that I've never been a fan of McGwire's. His overall career numbers are .263 BA and 583 HRs. I think he has only one or no MVPs so thats doesn't help his case.

Bonds, before the BALCO stuff, was a great player before this stuff. I hate Bonds as much as anyone but, he had great numbers before his head and body grew to be the size of a NFL LB. He had three MVPs and many gold gloves before Balco. Bonds also has a .300 BA and 700 something (disputed) HRs. It would make an easier case for Bonds to be in the Hall of Fame before Mac.
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ozarkbird · Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:07 pm Post subject:

McGwire was considered a lock for the Hall of Fame before this steroids stuff came out. If taking steroids in itself is not an immediate disqualification for the Hall of Fame, since many people are still willing to let Bonds in, then I think McGwire is an even more deserving Hall of Fame candidate now. His Congressional testimony has only added to his level of fame within the historical context of major league baseball.

Elite1 · Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:57 am Post subject:

Elite1 · Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:00 am Post subject:

BTW: Did you hear that the Mark McGwire highway will be renamed, Interstate 5..... In honor of Mark taking the 5th... Wink

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wprsnpr99 · All-Star Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Location: Southern Illinois

here's another ripple to throw against the tide...

...if the media and sportswriters 'hate' Barry B*nds so much, why would they vote him in the first time around?
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PowderBlueof82 · Hall of Famer Joined: 12 Oct 2004 Location: Macomb, IL

What about the fact that Bond's may have taken steriods post 2002, whereas McGwire may have prior too 2002???

Mac was a sure lock for the HoF, till he just looked bad in a pointless Congressional Hearing and now he's being crucifed. . .

This just makes me sick. . Rolling Eyes

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JoseGrapinino · Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:07 am Post subject:

yeah, he says he doesn't wanna talk about it like we've all known for at least a year, and we're gonna burn him at the stake? At least he hasn't lied, every one of you knows Bonds has lied.

his I didn't know "The Cream" was a steroid story is biggest piece of crap I've ever heard. Bonds has a PERSONAL CHEF! that man knows exactly whats going into his body, but suddenly he doesn't care about some cream he puts on. If his mom gave it to him, his first words would be, "what is it?" I know mine would, wouldn't yours? On top of that he says the cream didn't work, but then the cream was recommended for Sheffield?! who recommends a product that DOESN'T WORK?!

c'mon you have to be hu1y19y01y to believe this circle of crap!
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Etheridge2 · Hall of Famer Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Location: Chitown