Official Thread: Political Dugout

CardinalJayhawk · Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:48 am Post subject:

No attack was made. You are lucky that one of your poor choices didn't involve something you would have found addictive. Even exercise can be excessive and detrimental.
My statement stands, no one chooses to be obese or an addict. Name one person that sat down and said, "I want to be a drug addict". Taking that first hit has little to do with it. We all have a "drug of choice", be it ciggarettes, booz or excessive exercise or meth. or gambling or sex or blogging. We have one. It's just a matter of taking it to excess.
Myself, I have a highly addictive personality, so I don't drink, smoke or gamble. That doesn't mean I haven't had a drink or gambled. So the "initial hit choice" certainly doesn't apply.
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Rolen27fan · Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:54 pm Post subject:

chevyman58 · Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:30 am Post subject:

ABoyNamedSooie · Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:39 am Post subject:

The problem is not that large percentage of the population that's 10-20 pounds overweight. Nearly everyone 30 and older could stand to lose a couple pounds. The real problem is the growing number of people who are morbidly obese: those 100+ pounds overweight, with BMI's over 40. These are the ones that drastically increase their chances of heart disease and other chronic illnesses, and it's grossly unfair to make the percentage of the population who keep their bodies in relatively good shape (whether it be through some form of exercise or at least attempting to eat healthy) pay for the vastly increased health costs of those who refuse to take care of their bodies.
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CardinalJayhawk · Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:41 pm Post subject:

Yep, that's it just do some toe touchies and eat some salad and the pounds just melt away. Laughing

Why didn't I think of that?
65% of overweight women are not even offered their yearly female exams by their Drs.. 87% of Drs. don't offer when even a mild protest is put up by the woman. Drug studies do not take being overweight into account during trials. So antibiotics, blood pressure meds, pain meds and anti-depressants are all, more often than not, under prescribed and improperly dosed.
Adults that have respiratory problems due to second-hand smoke, because their parents smoked, should pay more for health care? I mean they could have chosen to not live with their parents or the parents could have chosen to send them away.
So should we also make people that have babies born with birth defects pay more insurance? They failed to make the choice to get proper DNA testing to insure the baby wouldn't have problems.
Can't get to sleep? Just close your eyes, you'll sleep.
If parents "choose" to have babies, even when amnio shows birth defects, shoulder they alone shoulder the expense of their choice? They could have chosen to abort the baby. Oops, many don't believe that should be a "choice".
I love the illusion of control.

P.S. Health care costs being sky high aren't due to the obese. The elderly are the most expensive sector of the population. Maybe we should just off the old or make them pay for their costs.
_________________
"Those that don't read have no advantage over those who can't." Mark Twain
Astronomy Picture of the Day
"Capitalism is what bankers call the casinos on Wall Street."-Kurt Vonnegut, April 2007, Armageddon in Retrospect.

chevyman58 · Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:37 pm Post subject:

CJ, Time & time again you get so off-the-wall, sensationalistic & sarcastic in your political thread postings that constructive discussion with you is virtually impossible IMO. Seriously .......... you're all over the place ...........

CardinalJayhawk · Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:57 am Post subject:

Others were complaining that they shouldn't be paying for people's poor choices when it comes to health care. How far do you take that? Everyone makes poor choices when it comes to something in their life.
I see each post as part of an on going conversation. I don't feel the need to repeat everything that has been said in the previous pages. Read it that way and my posts will make more sense.
I guess if I were to repeat other peoples work I could get a job as a Fox interveiwer per Sarah Palin.
I'm not taken seriously anway, why start now?
_________________
"Those that don't read have no advantage over those who can't." Mark Twain
Astronomy Picture of the Day
"Capitalism is what bankers call the casinos on Wall Street."-Kurt Vonnegut, April 2007, Armageddon in Retrospect.

chevyman58 · Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:18 pm Post subject:

CJ, The current discussion was about obesity - the chain is unbroken on that topic except for where you veered off into your comparatives.
Look back at the Posts - Pontus' last, Tully, Sooie, me, Rolen - all are addressing obesity & fatness in answer to your fat question post. Only you brought up the comparatives, the rest of us have remained on the fat issue except for one reference to the drug addict comparative you brought into the discussion.

No offense, I wasn't tryin' to slam you or anything. Just tryin' to point out you frequently stray "all over the place" which makes it difficult, or in this case "virtually impossible", to have constructive discussion on topic with you. In summary, it appears the rest of us in the chain believe most folks make a choice, series of choices, or series of opposite non-choices, that leads to their obesity and we don't consider it fair that we would be required to pay those folks' healthcare costs related to those choices they've made causing them to be obese. It would appear you feel differently.

I don't read where anybody even mentioned the elderly, let alone that we should kill 'em off. Rolling Eyes

CardinalJayhawk · Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:01 pm Post subject:

What I was trying to communitcate and thought by example it was clear is this. Many healthcare expenses are a matter of choice. By pointing out some that people wouldn't notmally think about I hoped to make my point.
Lung problems, usually the result of someones decision.
Birth defects, there is a choice involved there, from testing to having the baby.
Elderly, the largest amount of the health care dollar, the made the choice to be old. Why should I pay for their health problems.
Sleep problems? Close your eyes, why should I pay for your choice to not sleep.
The healthcare problems of those making the choice to be obese are all being published this month.
Sarcatstic yes, read the rest of the site, I'm not alone. Sensational, how? I have never related anything that hasn't happened or not true.
_________________
"Those that don't read have no advantage over those who can't." Mark Twain
Astronomy Picture of the Day
"Capitalism is what bankers call the casinos on Wall Street."-Kurt Vonnegut, April 2007, Armageddon in Retrospect.

ABoyNamedSooie · Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:22 pm Post subject:

Tulcard · Franchise Player Joined: 22 Jan 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK

CJ....for your information....just a small fact. Obesity is responsible for more than 80% of the chronic illness in the U.S. These ongoing expenses are spread among every Group and Individual insurance policy in the Nation. We that choose to have insurance coverage pay for the poor choices made by these folks.

I have been an Insurance Broker in the Health segment of my industry for my entire career. Do I want Socialized Medicine? No, of course not. I do not believe our Nation will allow it in the end. I am very well informed yet truthfully do not have the desire to aire my opinions on a Forum.

That being said I do not mind providing care for those who truthfully are unable to help themselves due to a birth situation or an "Honest" disability. For those who choose to be a drug addict, for example , or make other poor "choices" and choose not to change their way of Life I could care less. Let them fall through the cracks and whither away....may be cold, but that's the way I feel.

Perhaps you need to be sure of your facts before you type.... Cool

CardinalJayhawk · Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:17 pm Post subject:

What did they do before they had Medicare? They chose to give up their private health insurance inorder to pick up Medicare. As I understand it neither Medicare nor Social Security were intended to be the first choice of retired people. At best it was to be a supliment. Not the primary source.
Those elderly are making a choice. Why should I pay for that anymore than anyone should pay for increased health premiums because of the overweight?
So, off the old or make them pay for their choice.
Chev, I edited my response for cohesion. Smile

80% of chronic illness is not 80% of the increase in health care rates. I'm not an insurance salesman but I can read and do math. Those that don't have insurance and those under insured account for more of the problem than the obese. I developed a chronic illness long before I became overwieght, but the prejudice against the overwieght means no one knows that. I'm just lazy and deserve what happens because of my poor choices.
Health care costs follow an obscure economic law. It's the same one that governs the cost of text books and it's simply this. Anytime the person making the choices(the doctor and the professor) isn't the one paying(the ins. company and the student) for the service it will rise mush higher than the free market dictates.
I am what my grandmother used to call "tax and insurance poor", meaning I am raked over the coals for having plenty of both. Having insurance is basically a bet against your health. The only way you show any return on investment is to use it. You are then raked even more if you use it, even for well care. Strange industry.
_________________
"Those that don't read have no advantage over those who can't." Mark Twain
Astronomy Picture of the Day
"Capitalism is what bankers call the casinos on Wall Street."-Kurt Vonnegut, April 2007, Armageddon in Retrospect.

chevyman58 · Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:28 pm Post subject:

CardinalJayhawk · Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:51 pm Post subject:

How far do you want to take the personal choice thing. The only differance with being old is most of us hope to be old one day. Not a choice all are looking forward to.
It's not important Chevy.
I've worked with alot of poor and undereducated in my life. I do get rather sarcastic and if you think it's sensational that's fine. It's only because maybe I know sometimes people can only see things when the rediculous is brought up.
I like to think I'm rather generous with both my time and money. I take resposibility for all the decisions I have made in my life. I just want people to think a little outside of themselves and walk in someone elses shoes. Maybe then they will see it isn't always about choice.
_________________
"Those that don't read have no advantage over those who can't." Mark Twain
Astronomy Picture of the Day
"Capitalism is what bankers call the casinos on Wall Street."-Kurt Vonnegut, April 2007, Armageddon in Retrospect.